Hi there. Any chance you can add an NVQ plastering training category? I'd like to put across my views based on what you say on the website about training in a center not being 'optimum'. That is unless of course you have any objections to free and open discussion on here?

Hi Peter. And a big LOL to that! Of course 'free and open' discussion is welcome! Hey, it's encouraged! And so I've added the category for you.

Listen, I'm a machine plasterer and I have been since 1997. I have no vested interests here and I make no money from training. I'm not biased to towards one thing or another based on brand, manufacturer, institute or whatever. If I think a material is good, I'll say it is. If I think a machine is good, I'll say it is. And if I think something in not of an optimum, I'll say so too.

Training in a booth or a center is NOT optimum. No way is it! And in fact, I don't know if he'd agree to say it on here, but I even know a 25 year time-served plastering instructor who wouldn't even entertain disagreeing with me on that point. He's said it himself. And he RUNS a training center!

But anyway, the category is added and you are free to tell the world how good you think training centers are, if that's what you want to do!

By the way .. just a thought: do you own or run a training center then by any chance?

Okay thanks for adding the category. Yes, we run a plastering training center. Our courses run for 7 days. We teach how to set beads, applying backing coat with sand and cement (lime for training purposes) and then skimming with multifinish. We teach floor screeding, rendering, pebble-dashing, monocouche applied by hand and also onecoat plastering. And I've been plastering myself for ten years. Now I'm an instructor. And we also want to look at machine plastering ... and that' originally why I came to the website. Although now I'm not so sure I'll get any help from you based on your views.

I just don't know how you can say that training in a 'booth' in a training center is not optimum. How else are people going to learn??? We have people in a controlled environment and we can instruct and monitor them on a close one-to-one basis. When they leave, they get accreditation and have the basic skills they need. They know how to do the job. You know, maybe you should come and visit our training center and get a full appreciation before saying such comments. We train to a very good standard. Would you be interested in having a look and then looking at helping us set up for machine plastering training?

Pete, I've now moved this thread to the Training Category to keep this category 'on topic'. And will reply to this here.

Okay, now firstly you'll have to brace yourself and try not to get too upset about my views. You run a training center so we're not going to agree on a lot of things.

You say you run courses over seven days. And you give this person 'accreditation' after seven days? Accreditation to do what? Make a mess? A guy that has only had a trowel in his hand for such a short time wouldn't be going anywhere near a job of mine. Let alone giving him accreditation to say that he's competent (after only 7 days???). Come on - you know that this in not right.

You say where else is he going to learn? Exactly the same way it's always been done. On site with experienced tradesmen. You start off labouring (and learn how to do THAT properly first), and then move on gradually to learning other skills. You know what? I'll meet you half way and say that for skimming, and skimming only, yeah, you could teach someone the basics in about seven days. They won't be terrific and you wouldn't leave them alone on site or let them anywhere near a wall in your own house, but they'd get there with constant supervision.

But in training centers you're trying to teach these guys (total 'newbies') everything in a non-realistic environment in material applications which require a lot of general knowledge and experience to do properly and PROFESSIONALLY. (Note the word 'professionally': which means you're expected to do an unequivocally great quality job and get PAID for it. With no question or disputes.). Let's take monocouche for example. I've seen this taught in about three training centers and that's why I KNOW its a complete disservice to the guys you're training.

In one training center they had about 15 guys standing around a machine. The instructor gave a general and cursory machine set up explanation. One guy was on the gun and another on the rule. The area they put on was a flat wall of no more than 10m2. You know, this came across to me as something they just 'bolted on' to the end of their course in plastering. The instructor talked them through it and the rest were watching. Later that afternoon they finished the wall. The instructor started the wall explaining the basics and then everyone "had a little go".

Monocouche has and is getting a hard time in reputation here in the UK, getting quite a bad name, because far too many people are "having a go" without adequate, professional training. When I'm out on the road I take pictures of jobs all over the country which are completely sub-standard and had obviously been done by individuals with little experience. I recently spoke to one small development firm who would never specify monocouche again simply because of the troubles they had with standards of finish. The first job they ever had done had to be all hacked off again. The second attempt was not a whole better either. Training centers might make good money out of training, but I assure you that the guys you are training are not! They're the ones out on site not getting paid for their work because it is sub-standard.

The only way to learn (properly) is to work with and alongside experienced machine plasterers and renderers in a 'real' environment where everything matters. Not just ten meters. Complete buildings, with all important and fine detail (all beading and accurate detail, lead flashing/roofing detail, getting straight sofit edges, perfect reveals, meshing stress-points and changes in substrate, keeping wet edges through lifts, keeping if flat through lifts, 'I' framing, wet or dry internal angles depending on logistics and areas, encompassing all multitude of 'variables' per each unique build, rendering up to face brickwork and masking and cleanliness, when 'written instructions' should be acquired (for example, going over sub-standard existing works, .... and so many more things. There is just so much to mention. Big things, little things - but all of which matters and is so important to leave an absolutely perfect job with no errors or little 'snags' that a site agent and finishing foreman will pull up as no sooner look at it.

I could go on, but I won't. And that's my standpoint. You can't teach rendering adequately in a training center. Or certainly not any that I've visited.

I would help you set up a machine applied monocouche rendering module, but the criteria would have to be comprehensive and strict, encompassing all of the above and more, as I've certainly not been able to cover it all here. And that's the only way you're going to do your guys any kind of service at all. Train them properly so they do really know what they're doing, and so they go out, do a fantastic job every time (without remedial problems and painfully expensive 'learning curves'), getting paid well every time and both them and their clients proud of the work they've finished.

I think you are right my 1 day at collage did not preparer my for my frist day spaying the man i worked. spayed on 50 meters and gave me a rule and said go then finsh it after just doing small 5 meter walls what a shocker ha ha